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Don and Jen interview Sarah, a woman who has experienced multiple breakthroughs as she popped into Pray Through It meetings over the years. In this episode Sarah describes how her first two sessions led to major breakthroughs concerning the unpleasant and disempowering emotions she carried and her personal self-image built upon the words of bullies and an unhealthy dependence upon her mother. She comes to the realization that after her mother’s death she was holding onto her anxiety because it felt like it was all that she had left of her mother, but as she prays through things, she is able to finally let go of all-consuming thoughts and self-shame that dominated her life for decades to receive and walk out the Fruit of the Spirit.
Note: This episode contains a full-length sample prayer session recorded live at a Pray Through It conference. This prayer session begins at [00:13:24] and ends at [00:25:35].
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Self-Shame, Anxiety, Depression & Forgiveness
[00:00:00] Sarah: My mother passed away. I was really struggling with my anxiety and I felt like it was all that I had left of her. I felt like my anxiety at that time was my own personal piece of her that I always, went to because it reminds me of my mother. And so during the first session that I had with you I was really shocked with just the peace that I felt in my soul. It’s still kind of gives me goosebumps because at this point I had no idea that people had been praying like this, and it’s just so incredible how the Lord brings you the fruits of the Spirit and that’s exactly what I needed. I was finally able to move on and not focus on the wrong that I had done, the mistakes that I had made. I can now focus on Jesus and the right that he’s done.
[00:01:22]
[00:01:43] Don Love: Hello, this is Don love, and this is an exciting time for us as prayer ministers, my bride, Jen and I just finished leading a seven session. Pray Through It prayer training here in Lynchburg, Virginia. And we’re about to launch a new one day and three-day training, next month. If the testimonies in this podcast have gotten you curious and thirsty for more, we would love to have you join us at one of these trainings. The next three day prayer discipleship training retreat is in Forest, Virginia, June 23rd through 25th.
[00:02:13] Jennifer Love: if you can only spare one day, come to our one day training on the 25th or our listening and inner healing prayer meeting, that will be open to the public also on the 25th. You can check out www.praythroughit.com/events for more details.
[00:02:25] Don Love: If you aren’t listening to this podcast at the time of the release, don’t worry more trainings are in the works. And we’re even in the process of developing online courses that will launch later in the year, as well as working with churches across the U S where we’ll be holding retreats and trainings, just like this one.
[00:02:41] Jennifer Love: And that brings us to this episodes, guest and topic. Sarah will be joining us here in the studio soon. As part of attending our trainings, we ask our participants to fill out a few questions so we can get an idea of their background in listening prayer, how they heard about pre threat ministries and what impact, if any, has pray through it had on the way that they pray and live their life.
[00:02:58] Don Love: And so, as we’re reading over the applications, we came across Sarah’s application…
[00:03:03] Jennifer Love: And we recongnized Sarah’s name immediately because she was someone we’ve seen popping in and out of our prayer sessions every couple of years. And each time she shows up, she experiences some form of major breakthrough. And since these questions were on the application for the course, we, for the first time, got to hear about how these public pray through it, sessions had impacted Sarah’s life. I say for the first time, because one of the coolest things about our approach is you don’t have to share the details of what has happened to you or what you’ve done in your past, in order for us to help you process life through prayer. This helps you to rest assured that you won’t need to spend time sharing and reliving those unpleasant or even traumatic events. And it helps to prevent us from experiencing second-hand trauma from hearing about the things that people had done or what had happened to them.
[00:03:44] Don Love: Yeah, remember Ephesians 5:12 tells us that we shouldn’t even speak about what the disobedient doing secret and Jude 1:23 tells us that we should show mercy mixed with fear as we snatch people from the fire, despising, the garment stained by corruptible flash, and then Galatians 6:1 warns us to be careful when we’re helping others and restoring others so that we ourselves are not tempted.
[00:04:08] Jennifer Love: So with this approach, we might know that something significant happened during the prayer session to help them process the events of their past, give them a new outlook on God, themselves, others, and a new approach to people and situations in the future. But for the most part, we know very little about exactly the details and depths of what they were struggling through or the actual breadth of the impact of their prayer session. It’s only sometimes so weeks, months, maybe even years later at they’ll tell us some of that backstory really helps us to understand the significance of that single prayer session.
[00:04:37] Don Love: Yeah. And so now, and the next two interviews, Sarah is going to share with us a bit about how these processions helped her to pray through issues of unforgiveness that were at the root of her anxiety and her depression. Here’s part one of that interview.
[00:04:57] Don Love: Share with us a bit about your journey of listening inner-healing prayer.
[00:05:03] Sarah: My sister invited me to the very first event and she described it as it’s completely revolutionized my prayer life. And I honestly didn’t really care to go because it was a Saturday morning. And , you think of course, Saturday mornings, I should be able to sleep in and it was really cold that morning. So I was really not interested, but the Lord brought me there thankfully. And what a huge encounter I had. Just to give you a little bit of a backstory of the events that happened, because I think that that’s really important. I didn’t know what it was at the time, but When I had my first episode that I now know was a like, anxiety breakdown happened when I was 17. And it wasn’t until years later that I went to the doctor and got a diagnosis and he basically said that I was anxious and um, I was overly dependent on my mother. Let’s just give an example- if I felt like I was having an anxiety attack I don’t think it was quite a panic attack, but. felt like I was short of breath. I felt like my heart was beating fast and , very much a hypochondriac, like if there was any disease out there, then I had it. So. I was very reliant on , contacting my mom, calling her. Mom, I feel like I’m dying. I feel like I’m falling. I feel like I can’t drive. Just totally dependent on her mentally. Anytime that I had an anxiety flare, I would, call her and I was overly dependent on her and not on Jesus. And so during the first session that I had with you there was something there that I couldn’t quite understand what it was and I really wanted to hang on to it. I didn’t feel like I could just outright hand it over. And it was something that was really important to me. And I didn’t know why, but I distinctly remember that you asked Jesus to reveal to me why I couldn’t hand it over. And I realized that it was my anxiety. And the reason that I couldn’t hand it over was because it reminds me of my mother. My mother passed away at this point about nine years ago. And when this session with you happened, it was probably three to four years after she had passed away. So there’s this, amount of time that has passed where I can’t rely on her anymore. And I felt like it was all that I had left of her. I felt like it was my own personal piece of her that I always, went to. I always went to her and I didn’t feel like it was something that I could just hand over to Jesus. Yeah. So what Jesus showed me is that if I hand it over to him, which I eventually did. Then I can actually live a more peaceful life and it’s amazing how my life has been improved since then. It’s not completely gone away, but I don’t feel like I am constantly grabbing for my anxiety anymore. And keep in mind that this is something that I had been hanging on to for years and I think that the Lord really used that time as an advantage to say, Hey, I know that you’ve been trying to do this on your own. You can’t. I’m going to take it for you, but you have to give it to me.
[00:09:42] Don Love: So to summarize, you had this anxiety in you and it was something that you would go to your mom often to get help with, but then once she was gone, that anxiety was really like the last vestige of your mother. And so to let go of your anxiety was in some ways to let go of your mother.
[00:09:59] Sarah: Exactly.
[00:10:00] Don Love: And so the Lord was telling you that you could actually bring that anxiety to him and you didn’t need to keep it. You could actually let go of that to him. And then you would have more peace in that.
[00:10:10] Sarah: Exactly. And it helped me remember her now in a better light and not focus on. All of the times that I went to her, I can now focus on some times that were happier for us. That was my very first experience with praying through something.
[00:10:33] Don Love: So what happened after that then? What did life look like after you prayed through things that first time?
[00:10:38] Sarah: Well, first of all, I was really shocked with. Just the the peace that I felt in my soul. It’s still kind of gives me goosebumps because at this point I had no idea that people had been praying like this, and it’s just so incredible how the Lord brings you the fruits of the spirit and, that’s exactly what I needed. I was really, , struggling with my anxiety and at that time it was definitely that my anxiety was controlling more of my life than it needed to.
[00:11:22] Don Love: We then later had another prayer session. How far apart were those two sessions? Would you say?
[00:11:27] Sarah: I would say between one to two years.
[00:11:30] Don Love: So tell me a bit about the second session, what you remember looking back on this, this was back in 2019. What do you remember back three years ago now for that session?
[00:11:42] Sarah: I don’t remember a lot from this session. The only thing that I could really. Remember at this point was, I felt like I was shaming myself. I felt like I was not worthy to have good things in life because of mistakes that I had made in my past. And looking back, I know that there are some childhood memories that I have of not feeling like I fit in- not feeling like I was a part of the group. And that has definitely followed me for years and years ever since they happened. And so this childhood trauma has followed me… for years. I considered myself to be undeserving. I considered myself to be dirty, but I do remember that Jesus showed to me that God looks through the blood of Jesus at me. He doesn’t look at me for me. He looks at me through the blood of Jesus and he showed me that I don’t have to hold on to the decisions that I made in the past. I don’t have to hang on to the mean things that I was told when I was younger, because Jesus is perfect. And that’s how God views me.
[00:13:15] Don Love: Well, let’s take a moment now and listen to this session. It’s only about 14 minutes long. Is that good? You want to listen to this session?
[00:13:23] Sarah: Sure, yeah!
[00:13:23] Don Love: All right. Let’s listen to this session here.
[00:13:24] Don Love: All right. So who got to a certain point? And you’re like, all right, I believe the Lord saying, I gotta finish this tonight and you want to come up and we’ll pray through it. So who’s like that? Who wants to pray through something? Come on.
[00:13:44] Don Love: So you want to tell us a little bit about what’s going on?
[00:13:47] Sarah: I had this memory. Of when I used to babysit this little boy and it was at church every Sunday evening, and one of my peers, who I’ve always felt like I was never accepted by her, was calling me stupid and making fun of me because I was homeschooled and I didn’t go to school with them. And I always felt like I was ugly in comparison to them. I’m definitely holding onto that. And I feel like I need to forgive her, but for some reason I couldn’t hand that over not even a little bit. And so that’s kind of where I’m at right now.
[00:14:40] Don Love: Okay, lets pray about that. And it’s Sarah, right? Lord, thank you so much for Sarah and Lord. I thank you for bringing these things to her mind, Lord, these painful things. Lord, I ask. Would you protect her from this memory? Would you protect her from the pain of these things? Would you give her a third person perspective on this? Lord, your perspective on this?
[00:15:04] Don Love: So Lord, we lift up these folks who’ve said mean things to Sarah, things that seem unforgivable. Lord, I asked, would you guide us? And that’s what you helped Sarah in this process? Lord, would you help Sarah to see why is it so hard for her to forgive this person? Lord would you push everything else to the side? Would you help her to see, Lord what’s holding this unforgiveness in place. Would you bring to our mind? Why is it so hard for her to forgive Anything come to mind when I ask that Sarah? Lord, would she bring Sarah’s mind to rest? Lord, would you push to the sides, anything that’s getting in the way? Would you carve out space that she might hear and would you bring her heart to peace? Would you help her to see, Lord? What’s the biggest thing getting in the way of her forgiving this person? Would you bring that to her mind or heart in a way she can receive?
[00:16:17] Sarah: I believe that it’s true.
[00:16:19] Don Love: Lord would you help her to see Lord? Is it true that she’s ugly and stupid? Lord would you test this Would you give her a true image of herself, the way that you see her? Is it true that she’s not as pretty as these other people? Would you test this Sarah, to get a sense of these things true?
[00:16:48] Sarah: I just hear, “I see you’re dressed in white, every wrong made, right.”
[00:16:52] Don Love: So Lord, would you help her to see why she dressed in white? How has every wrong made right? Do you know why that is how that is?
[00:17:13] Sarah: I know why I’m dressed in white.
[00:17:16] Don Love: Can you share why that is? You don’t have to
[00:17:23] Sarah: I don’t think so.
[00:17:28] Don Love: Okay. Lord, would you help her to understand, truly Lord, why she was dressed in white? Lord, would you affirm that in her and Lord? Would you help her to see how are these wrongs made right? What would you show her the path forward to rightness? Lord, would you help her to see? Is there anything that she needs to do in this moment? Anything that she needs to give or receive, Lord that these wrongs might be made? Right. Is there anything getting in the way of these right things happening right now? You get a sense of that. It might be coming to your mind in a way that you don’t quite understand. Is there anything that’s coming that cannot put out and once it comes in?
[00:18:20] Sarah: The word “confusion”
[00:18:22] Don Love: So, Lord, we left up confusion to you. Why would you help her to see what about confusion? You see, what about confusion?
[00:18:36] Sarah: Its… It’s keeping me from seeing the truth.
[00:18:42] Don Love: Lord, we know that you are not a God of confusion, but a God of order. So we ask that you would bring her mind to order. Lord, would you move everything that is not of you? Lord, if there is anything coming upon her, in her, through her, that is a spirit of confusion. We come against that in the name of Jesus. Lord, we ask that you would make space for her. Lord that you would take away confusion from her. Lord, would you bring clarity to her? Would you help Sarah, Lord, in this moment to not be confused about the situation? Would you bring your clarity upon her that she might understand what needs to happen now? Is this confusion, something that’s left you now? Is it still there?
[00:19:31] Sarah: I can’t picture myself giving it to him.
[00:19:35] Don Love: Lord, would you search over her and help her to understand where confusion dwells in her, around her? Lord, if the confusion is with her, would you help her to see how to give it to you or how to let it go from her to you? Is confusion, something you’re willing to let him take? It’s going to take it?
[00:19:58] Sarah: He wants to
[00:20:02] Don Love: Lord, would you help her to see? Is there anything that she needs to do in order to release this confusion to you? Would you help her to see? Is there any reason that confusion is holding her? She is holding it.
[00:20:21] Sarah: It’s comforting in a twisted way.
[00:20:27] Don Love: Would you show her how confusion comforts her Lord?
[00:20:39] Sarah: It’s a false safe.
[00:20:40] Don Love: Lord, would you help her to see what is it that you want to give her that’s true safety? Lord, is there a better safety than this confusion?
[00:20:56] Don Love: Are you willing to let HIm hold this confusion for a time? Not surrender it, but let him hold it for a time? Can you trust Him enough to let him hold it?
[00:21:06] Sarah: Just for a moment.
[00:21:07] Don Love: So just picture handing it over to Him. Let all confusion leave you and go to him for this moment. Lord Jesus, would you gather this confusion up from her? Can you let go of it? Does He have it?
[00:21:21] Sarah: He has my hand. So he’s holding onto it with me.
[00:21:42] Don Love: Lord, you have said that you will bear our burdens and you will give us rest. So Lord, I ask what you send your rest upon Sarah. Now, Lord, that she might understand the rest beyond confusion.
[00:21:59] Sarah: Rest…
[00:22:00] Don Love: And Lord, in this rest I ask, would you help her to see, is there something better than confusion that you want to give her for her comfort?
[00:22:10] Sarah: Peace.
[00:22:11] Don Love: You willing to receive His peace? Jesus says peace I give to you, not as the world gives. And then through the Spirit is peace. So Lord, I ask, would you flow over Sarah into Sarah? Would you help her to understand the peace, not as the world gives, but as you give Lord, you’ve said that when we cast our cares upon, you will give us the peace that surpasses all understanding.
[00:22:37] Don Love: So Lord, I ask, would you help her as she cast this confusion to you? Lord I ask, would you wash over her with this peace that she might understand it? Do you sense that peace?
[00:22:51] Sarah: A little.
[00:22:55] Don Love: Just focus on on that little bit that you have. Lord, I ask that this piece would be pervasive. It wouldn’t go into every place where confusion wants to weld. Once you heal the wounds caused by confusion? Can you sense that peace?
[00:23:16] Sarah: What’s the wrong that you’ve made right?
[00:23:21] Don Love: Lord, would you help her to see, what’s the wrong that you’ve made right? Would you bring into focus into front and center or what is the wrong you’ve made right in this moment?
[00:23:33] Sarah: I need to forgive myself?
[00:23:36] Don Love: Lord, would you help Sarah now to forgive herself? Would you show her those things that she needs to forgive herself for? You don’t necessarily need to pray it out loud, but can you say, “Lord, I forgive myself… for”
[00:23:52] Sarah: Thank you for taking this burden from me Lord and for helping me to forgive myself.
[00:24:02] Don Love: Have you forgiven yourself? Can you let go of it?
[00:24:10] Sarah: Yes, take it Lord.
[00:24:13] Don Love: Lord I ask, would you help all of this unforgiveness? Would you search through her? Would you show her Lord this unforgiveness? Would you help it to pass from her? Lord, I ask now? Would you help her to receive all the forgiveness from everyone else and including herself that she couldn’t receive before? Lord, I pray now for Sarah. Lord, that you would continue to fan the flame of this. Lord, that this forgiveness would serve as the basis for what’s next. Can you let go of this confusion now?
[00:24:50] Sarah: Yes!
[00:24:50] Don Love: What’s He do with it when you give it to him?
[00:24:52] Sarah: He… He eats it?!
[00:24:55] Don Love: Lord, would you show her? Why do you eat this?
[00:24:57] Sarah: Because, he wants me to never pick it up again.
[00:25:04] Don Love: So Lord, would you help her to see is she free from this?
[00:25:06] Sarah: I gave it to Him.
[00:25:07] Don Love: So Lord, I ask that you would guide Sarah Lord tonight. You’ve said that you minister your righteous, even their sleep. And Lord, I pray for her. I pray for everyone here, Lord, that the hope that you’ve given her, Lord, that this would be something that would fan the flame of the hope of those that are here. Lord, that would seems impossible, Lord, you would help them to see what is possible in you. We pray this all in name of Christ. Amen.
[00:25:36] Don Love: So when you walked away from that session, what was the same and what was different than when you first came in?
[00:25:43] Sarah: Being able to forgive myself for something that once brought me shame, I was finally able to move on and not focus on the wrong that I had done, the mistakes that I had made. I was able to focus on Jesus and the right that he’s done. The perfection that he is. And this session really made it possible for me to not carry this shame on my back. That’s been following me for years.
[00:26:27] Don Love: So between the second session and a third session, what stayed the same? What changed over time? Leading up to that third session?
[00:26:36] Sarah: I was a lot more gracious towards myself after this session. I didn’t feel like I had this thing hovering in the back of my mind that reminded me of how unworthy I was. It didn’t follow me around, like it had in the past. And I think that’s exactly what peace is. It opens up the door for the Lord’s purity to come in and wash over you. And erase these self condemning thoughts that you have. And that’s what it felt like I gained from this session.
[00:27:22] Don Love: Yeah. Explain a little bit about the idea of self condemning thoughts and the idea of forgiving yourself because that’s kind of a foreign idea. A lot of times we’ll think about forgiving others, but we don’t think about the idea that we’re holding something against ourself or something against God. And I don’t know if it’s quite right to say we forgive God because he didn’t do anything wrong, but it is quite possible for us to hold something against him in a way that hinders that relationship. And it’s also possible on the other end that we could hinder that relationship because we are not receiving his forgiveness on our end either. So if you’ll talk to us a little bit about that self forgiveness and self shaming that goes on as you mulled that over in your head for years?
[00:28:06] Sarah: Well, first of all, I believe that forgiveness is not just for the other person. If you’re holding on to an event or. Something wrong that’s happened in your life, then it’s like drinking vinegar. You constantly have this bitter taste in your mouth. And there’s nothing that can quench that bitterness. And every time you think about it, it’s like taking another sip or another gulp of vinegar, which in case you’ve never had it, it’s really disgusting to drink by itself. It is really nasty and not being able to forgive someone or yourself. Means that you can be constantly triggered here and there by events, by objects, by things, by people that make it impossible for you to live your life without. Taking more sips of that vinegar. And it’s that bitterness that you keep sipping. So forgiveness is not just the for the other party. Forgiveness is really for yourself. So what happens when you need to forgive yourself? For me, what happened was I was no longer triggered by these memories of wrongs that I had done of decisions that I had made. I was no longer affected and looked at myself in a negative way and I no longer was so hard on myself for making those decisions.
[00:29:57] Don Love: The sipping of the vinegar, did that kind of stop? Once you left the session or did you keep sipping the vinegar on stuff?
[00:30:02] Sarah: Well, definitely everything in regards to my experience from this session that I gave to God, I can honestly say that I haven’t really thought about it since then. Yeah. In a negative way. It has not bothered me. Since then. I might have thought about the situations and the decisions that I made and the choices and the memories that I have, but it does not haunt me. It does not follow me like it used to. It’s like the Lord almost, in a way, erased those memories. And replaced them with- Hey, it happened. Not, oh, you’re so terrible for this happening. You’re so terrible that you made this choice. You’re so terrible that you made that decision when you were 17.
[00:31:12] Don Love: Well, the cool thing too, was this prayer session was about 10 minutes, probably publicly. You got hung up somewhere in that 10 minutes. And then it was about 13 minutes or so where we actually prayed through things together. And we were able to in 13 minutes to get over something that bounced around in your head for years…
[00:31:30] Sarah: Years, and years, and years. And it probably, I mean, I would say, it was following me around probably several times per month, even. And I would think about it and then I would dwell on it and similar to worry, I mean, it was just all consuming. And eventually sure. I would forget about it for a while, but that pain and the hurt that I experienced when I was shaming myself, was still like reopening the wound every time I thought about it. And every time I thought about those experiences. And after that moment, those experiences were- the best way that I could describe it is it is a scar now. Yes, it’s happened. But the scar just reminds me that I’m healed from it. The scar just reminds me that this is what I used to think of myself. And now… now it’s just an event. It’s not a fresh wound. It’s just, it’s just a scar. It may be history, but it’s not what defines me now.
[00:33:04] Don Love: One of the coolest things too about this, I still don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t know what you did. I don’t have to know what you did. We think of confession often as though we had to put all of the junk out there, but we’re actually told in scripture that we’re not even supposed to speak about what the disobedient do in secret, we’re supposed to help others. And we’re supposed to throw away the garment stained by corruptible flash being careful lest we’re tempted. And if we help you, without actually knowing the details of what happened, we don’t have to enter deeply into some painful memory and relive it. We can be able to work around that memory and be able to pray through what was believed as a result of that. So that memory can kind of be recategorized.
[00:33:44] Jennifer Love: And with that, we will conclude part one of Sarah’s story. Once again, you can check out www.praythroughit.com/events to sign up for our next training and join us in the next episode for part two of Sarah story, will you get to hear more about how Sarah discovered that her debilitating depression was rooted in false beliefs concerning herself and how she was actually cherishing her anxiety believing the lie that to let go of anxiety would be to let go of her mother. And you’ll hear how praying through her beliefs, not only led to relief from anxiety and depression, but to a renewed identity in Christ. And how now the memories that used to haunt her with doubt, and hurt, and sadness, they now stand as a testimony of God’s goodness. See you then.
